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Sunday, January 07, 2007

Quote of the day

OK, it was actually from a couple of days ago but whatever the day, Beth of Blue Star Chronicles sure has a way with words:

"Apparently, when Palestinians have no one else to not get along with, they don’t get along with themselves."

Ya think?!

For those who haven't been following the blow-by-blow in Gaza, Fatah and Hamas have been murdering and kidnapping each-other's terrorists security personnel for the past couple of weeks and have even been whacking one another's outspoken supporters when the mood strikes them.  Of course, in the process they have been violating every convention ever dreamed of by the civilized world (targeting civilians, blocking ambulances from reaching wounded, attacking people as they emerge from Mosques, etc.) but don't expect to see the useful idiots of the European left complaining any time soon about such niceties.  After all, so long as Jews aren't doing the killing it's nobody's business... go on home... show's over people... nothing to see here!

On the face of it I should probably be delighted about this latest revelation to the world of the Palestinian's inability to get along peaceably with anyone... even their own.  Besides, any bullet they fire at one of their own is a bullet that won't find an Israeli target.  However if we've learned nothing else from recent history it is that the leaders of the various Palestinian militias will eventually figure out that the only way for a faction to reassert its supremacy is to demonstrate its superior ability to bloody Israel's nose.

Well, so long as they are busy introducing each other to allah I should at least hope and pray that someone in the world is taking note of the slaughter. 

Speaking of the world paying attention to slaughter, another timely bit I picked up from Beth is the death toll from the recent 'Hajj' to Mecca, Saudi Arabia.  No, not the inevitable faithful who are trampled to death every year in the festivities but rather the animal sacrifices carried out as part of the annual rite.  Apparently the ritual sacrifice of animals this year topped 710,00 sheep, goats and camels!   

As Beth so aptly points out:

"Where is PETA when you need them? Oddly, they seem strangely quiet in the face of these sacrifices celebrating hajj.

Throwing paint on the fur coats of wealthy women in Manhattan is a little bit safer than protesting animal sacrifice in Saudi Arabia. I have to say, I’d have a lot more respect for PETA or other protesters if they’d take their protests somewhere besides the United States where there are no consequences for protesting and free speech."

Remember how PETA led the charge to ban Shechita (Kosher slaughter practices) in Europe and the US because it was cruel?  Remember how they wrote a letter to Yassar Arafat when the PLO strapped explosives to a donkey in an attempt to blow up Jews... not because they were worried about the Joos, but rather out of concern for the cruelty to the poor donkey

Double standard much?

But now when a bunch of Muslims from around the world whose only previous training as butchers is that they are, well, Muslims, hack away at three-quarters of a million terrified animals, PETA says... nothing.

I know I'll probably regret drawing a parallel between the two topics I've brought up today, but please consider the following:

When Muslims kill... whether it be other Muslims or animals... the world considers it an internal matter and barely differentiates between the severity of the two acts.  But when Jews kill Muslims or animals, both are held up as the savage acts of a cruel, depraved people.

IMHO, this is just another sure sign that we need to simply ignore what the world has to say about anything.  We have to kill to eat... and unfortunately (l'havdil) we sometimes have to kill to survive.  Both are our business and the rest of the world can just go eff themselves if they don't like it.

221_16_5_197

Posted by David Bogner on January 7, 2007 | Permalink

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GREATTTTTTTTTTT post...pretty scary, no? shavuah tov trepp

Posted by: marallyn | Jan 7, 2007 4:44:05 PM

Makes sense to me.

Posted by: Rahel | Jan 7, 2007 6:03:51 PM

Wonderfully said.

Posted by: Sara K | Jan 7, 2007 6:17:09 PM

Another interesting point about the Palestinian on Palestinian violence is the political meaning of this internal struggle. Thoughtful observers know that until there is a Palestinian polity, rather than a series of rival gangs or tribes (viz. Iraq), Israel has no partner for peace. The question now is whether this is just more gang warfare, or the beginnings of the weeding out process of the gangs no destined to become part of the Palestinian political structure.
Groups like Hamas and Fatah have been posing like political parties. Recent events should serve as a reminder that they are no better than the Jets and Sharks, without the dancing, and even the most wishful leftists, such as myself, have yet to see an actual mature political order emerge other than on the most local level in Palestine. Absent that, progress is well nigh impossible.

Posted by: Jordan Hirsch | Jan 7, 2007 8:46:33 PM

Great post except for your charity towards the Eurabian Left in calling them usefull idiots.

Posted by: Scott Fleming | Jan 7, 2007 9:34:03 PM

"No better than the Jets and Sharks, without the dancing" - that's just funny, Jordan.

I agree with the post completely. But it raised a thought for me, if I might ask it here. When Hamas came to power, why didn't Israel put a nix on that? What I mean is, they are still in Israel territory, and they are not their own country - so isn't it illegal to have a party in power who disavows the right of the country to exist? For example, you can vote for anyone here in the U.S. for an office, but they have to support the Constitution and swear loyalty to the U.S. Any group elected in Israel should be required to swear to the same loyalties, to support the state of Israel, no? Along with looking out for their constituents. Hamas and the gangsters should not be tolerated, period. They simply should not be there right now, even if it requires military force to shut them down. That was the big lie: that you should be allowed to vote for anybody, including te--rists.

Jordan is right. There are no partners for peace, because gangsters are running Palestine, (and my words following) idiots are running Washington, a bunch of pansies are running Europe. Maybe the political landscape can be changed, as many individuals support Israel.

But if Israel protects itself, more power to it.

Once, behind the school, I was attacked by a bunch of bullies. I tried to escape, and then I took it until I could take no more. No one would help me. Finally I had to put one in the hospital by a very brutal move. The rest backed off. No one I ever told the story to ever faulted me for that defense. It wasn't as grand as that story you told once (Treppenwitz), but sometimes things just are not "just", and you gotta do what you gotta do.

Posted by: Seattle | Jan 7, 2007 9:39:56 PM

The local Arabs, unfortunately, are demonstrating our common roots. I wish the quote of the week wouldn't apply as well to us.

Posted by: Barzilai | Jan 8, 2007 2:00:12 AM

Yeah, but Barzilai--we don't hang out in front of each others' shuls on Shabbos with guns in our Borsalinos. There's a difference.

Posted by: uberimma | Jan 8, 2007 2:15:36 AM

I think it's really time for a full-on war with Islam. Think of it as a clash of civilizations ... religious war .... whatever but Islam has openly challenged the West to total war. Repeatedly ... blatantly and in every way one can think of. Their spokesmen regularly tell us that their god is God and that the West is spiritually dead and in need of conquering. Well lets give em what they so desperately want. They need to be shown finally and without dispute whose civilization is superior. They need to understand this just like the Japanese were forced to admit it or the Germans. I'd guess this will require many many millions of dead muslims. Damn! I hope I live to see it.

Posted by: Scott Fleming | Jan 8, 2007 2:45:15 AM

Of course. Lefty groups are never against racism or homophobia or targeting civilians or sexism or capital punishment. Liberal groups are against the West doing those things. When is the last time a gay group told Saudi Arabia to treat gays more justly (not to mention to allow gay marriage)? When did Greenpeace protest polution in totalitarian countries (which have much worse polution than in developed countries)? The left uses liberal principles as a bludgeon against the West, but the left can only exist in the West. That's why ultimately the Left is suicidal.

Scott Fleming: I think I love you.

Posted by: Doctor Bean | Jan 8, 2007 3:05:17 AM

marallyn... Now all I can think of is Frosted Flakes. Thanks. :-)

rahel... You keep surprising me. :-)

Sarak... Thank you.

jordan... Then why are all your friends on the left pushing Israel to deal with these tribal thugs? Great WSS line though.

Scott... And you'd call them...?

Seattle... That's a whole other post, but simply put the Palestinian's have enjoyed political autonomy for some time now and Israel was obliged to allow them to hold free and open elections. The kick in the head is that the Palis were told y EVERYONE that if they chose Hamas they would be isolated.. only they haven't quite had the nads to hold them to that.

Barzilai... It's not that we fight amongst ourselves... it's HOW we fight.

uberimma... Actually people in my shul are armed to the teeth... but I get your point. :-)

Scott Fleming... While I share your basic sentiment about their call to all out war, I find your comment about millions of dead Muslims callous in light of your own greedy wish to remain alive.

Doctor Bean... I also love Scott for saying many of the things I think but won't say. But that editing mechanism is what separates us from the savages.

Posted by: treppenwitz | Jan 8, 2007 6:06:01 AM

Well, two points. One, addressed t Seattle, is that even Israel does not believe that Gaza and the West Bank are part of Israel. Palestinians get to choose their own leaders, but what israel has done in reaction to the election of Hamas is refuse to deal with them, and freeze some of the taxes collected on their behalf. So it's not that there has been no consequences suffered by Hamas.
Two, I don't know Dave, but I think that more and more people realize that until the Palestinians set their own house in order, there is very little for Israel to do. The fact that the Carters and Bakers of the world seem to get more play may be a function of their name recognition. I don't think there are many serious mainstream politicians in the US who believe the Palestinian situation is stable enough for Israel to be able to get anything done. For the most part this crosses party lines. As for Europe, well, I think they live in such fear of a Muslim explosion within ther own borders that they are constitutionall incapable of viewing the situation dispassionately.

Posted by: Jordan Hirsch | Jan 8, 2007 7:18:37 AM

1. Anti-semitic irreligious eletists bent on exterminating Jews and Christians.

2. I'll settle for just killing combatants and their controllers. That's still several million. As to me verses them ..... I'm with the good guys so though it reveals my prejudices I simply think WE have a greater claim to survival and a future on this planet. Its pretty clear the other team has drawn the line in the sand. There's just not enough room in this world for the both of us ... by their definition.

Posted by: Scott Fleming | Jan 8, 2007 7:57:08 AM

Another excellent post.

As Meryl Yourish likes to say, "What time is it? It's Israel Double Standard time!" Don't ever expect the Islamic world - or anyone else, for that matter - to be held to the same standards as Israel. Not gonna happen.

As for PETA, a bigger bunch of misguided hypocrites would be hard to find. Any group that seriously tries to compare the slaughter of chickens for human consumption to the Holocaust, as PETA has done in the past, is beneath contempt.

Posted by: Elisson | Jan 8, 2007 8:04:54 AM

The longer I live the more clear it becomes that we can only rely upon ourselves.

Posted by: Jack | Jan 8, 2007 10:47:23 AM

Sharks and Jets? Indeed. It's been like that since (at least) 1983. Why anyone thought Arafat was a true revolutionary rather than a latter day Corleone (to borrow another popular culture reference) given his record is a triumph of the PR machine working for him.

Posted by: soccerdad | Jan 8, 2007 7:08:26 PM

Sharks and Jets? Indeed. It's been like that since (at least) 1983. Why anyone thought Arafat was a true revolutionary rather than a latter day Corleone (to borrow another popular culture reference) given his record is a triumph of the PR machine working for him.

Posted by: soccerdad | Jan 8, 2007 7:08:27 PM

The problem lies with the term "Palestinians" which treats a collection of warring Bedouin tribes as if they were one political entity (kudos to Jordan Hirsch for pointing out that they are not). Israel treating with the Palestinians is as much a waste as Americans a century and a half ago treating with plains Indians and for the same reason: they are not one people. Worse, the word of one war chief -- for example, Yasser Arafat -- does not bind another man, so treaties are unproductive.

The irony is that these raiders depend upon the fruits of the civilization that they attack. Without Israel, the West Bank and Gaza would revert to unproductive desert.

Discovering ways to improve their financial lot internally would be a more productive use of the "Palestinians'" time than firebombing busses of Israelis but would not yield the immediate visceral satisfaction. It takes different skills to organize for peace than for war.

I don't have an answer. But neither does Olmert.

Posted by: antares | Jan 8, 2007 9:06:13 PM

The really sad thing is that many Muslims don't care about fighting Israel and just want to live their lives and care for their children and be left alone to do that. But there will always be that 2% on the far left of the bell curve determined to take themselves out of the gene pool. The pity is that they want company on their last voyage.

Posted by: antares | Jan 8, 2007 9:28:00 PM

I am in a cynical mood today, so:

David:

1. For every killed Gazzan afew new ones are getting from the oven.
2. For every expended bullet a new magazine is being passed through the tunnel.
3. As for PETA:
3a) you should regret mixing treif with morons ;-)
3b) If you wish, I can check via Meryl where the next EATAPETA bash is being held.
4. As a carnivore I bleed for any chunk of meat I consume... nah, I have already apologized to all the past and future critters I have and will ever consume. We made peace.
5. And re EuroLefties - they have passed long ago into the category of useless idiots. It is US Lefties we should be more concerned now lest they become useful.

Cheers.


Posted by: SnoopyTheGoon | Jan 8, 2007 9:51:55 PM

Okay, vicious sarcasm and bigotry here: the reason why no one says anything about Muslims killing Muslims OR Muslims whacking terrified goats is because no one expects beasts of prey to do otherwise.

See, in most of the civilized world, wolves have been exterminated, but people treasure the few that are left, provided they don't leave the nature-parks and invade people's backyards. If they do, animal control gets called (and the next day the local papers receive angry mail about cruelty to animals beautiful wild beasts precious nature blabla min kol ha blablayim.

Sarcasm ends here.

Posted by: The Back of the Hill | Jan 9, 2007 12:17:55 AM

The truth is....no one cares about Palestinians. Or what happens to Palestinians (or their animals for that matter). Remember the British mentality back then (the mandate and before) Nothing's changed. On the political level, the supposed pity for Palestinians is just rhetoric for the masses. To Europeans (and everyone else), Israel (and the Palestinians) is still just a small piece of the great Middle Eastern puzzle. And they *want* the chaos and the conflict to persist. It's not just anti-Semitism, it's not just chickenheartedness. We're dealing with very cynical yet short-sighted politicking that's been going on for the past century, and from which no one's learned one bit. European leaders care about their votes. They don't care what happens in the next generation.

Posted by: Irina | Jan 9, 2007 6:28:29 AM

"When is the last time a gay group told Saudi Arabia to treat gays more justly (not to mention to allow gay marriage)? "

Don't know about Saudi, but IGLHRC has requested that the UN investigate executions of gay men in Iran. (I don't think it got them real far.)

Posted by: Balabusta in Blue Jeans | Jan 9, 2007 6:50:26 AM

"Israel treating with the Palestinians is as much a waste as Americans a century and a half ago treating with plains Indians and for the same reason: they are not one people."

Riiiiight--because Americans kept treaties with organized Indian nations with such scrupulous care...

I agree about the Palestinians' situation, actually, more's the pity.

Posted by: Balabusta in Blue Jeans | Jan 9, 2007 6:55:52 AM

As they say, "He who hates humanity hates the Jews."

Posted by: Evan | Jan 9, 2007 3:19:07 PM

*Stands on top of the world to clap*

EXACTLY! This, btw, is the post I've been trying to comment on, and now I'm left with nothing much to say other than EXACTLY! Although, after viewing the PETA shechitah video for a paper I wrote on the subject, I am forced to say - bcs I dislike them loads in general - and Green Peace, don't get me started on them either - that they truly, and sadly, were right. What galls me is that they systematically pick on the one side only.

Posted by: Lioness | Jan 11, 2007 1:57:02 PM

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